#83: Marketer: Elaine Decleir: Honest and True Experiences

Back at it and in video with Marketer Elaine Decleir! Elaine humanizes marketing and teaches me a few things along the way. I really enjoyed Elaine's sincere intensity and it was great to hear about her creative and business partnership with previous podcast guest, Robin Lindner. The duo makes up Robin and Elaine and it was nice to get a peek into how these two work through creative challenges.

Elaine is great! It's a great time, do it up!

Elaine on Instagram
Robin and Elaine

Music by Sarah, The Illstrumentalist

Video Podcast on Youtube

Transcriptions via Descript

elaine: [00:00:00] Ryan, how are you?

ryan: Hi, Elaine. How are you doing?

elaine: I'm great.

ryan: Good. Nice to meet you?

elaine: Nice to meet

you.

ryan: I'm going to have to meet you

in person.

elaine: We have to meet everybody in

person.

ryan: I know I've been kind of like going through a checklist of people.

elaine: Yeah,

ryan: How's your day.

elaine: it's good. I it's really hot. outside.

Have you been

ryan: Yeah. I like it. And then like hide inside.

I'm are you a fan of the heat?

elaine: I'm a fan of heat

typically, but not this hot,

I would say. Yeah.

ryan: No, not really.

elaine: I feel like you're

like a 17 degree

weather kind of

ryan: oh my God.

elaine: What's your weather

now?

ryan: Yeah. Like 17 degrees. I'm

elaine: my sister.

ryan: yeah. Okay. And your sister will get people.

elaine: You guys are the same. Yeah. Sorry. You and I was like, yeah, you like

17

ryan: 17 degree weather. I love it. I feel like so seen, but it's also [00:01:00] so

pigeonholed right now.

elaine: I mean, there's a range,

ryan: Okay. Thank you. What, what's your temperature?

elaine: I think 25,

28. That would be my

range.

ryan: 28th though. That's like top.

elaine: Yeah. I mean, typically you want to be a, by a body of water, I would say, wow, that's really helpful. I

have a kitty pool now. So it just, for me, like as an adult.

ryan: yeah.

elaine: And I really

enjoyed that.

ryan: I should go in my kid's kitty pool

elaine: Yeah.

That's different when

ryan: I was

going to,

but I didn't,

elaine: it's better. when you have,

kids in a kitty pool, where are you?

Are you? this.

is a

sound.

ryan: this is my studio down. I'm with I'm in the, him And her part of a 3 0 5.

elaine: go five.

ryan: King street.

elaine: Nice. So we could hang out all the

time because usually we're at the

Kitchener, I'm on my house today, but usually we're at the kitchen at market

ryan: yeah. and I hear [00:02:00] that you guys go. by the

underground what's that place downstairs down there.

elaine: underground flavor group. Such a great spot. I think I have to

go have a meeting with them either

this afternoon or tomorrow or Friday. Maybe.

I don't

know.

I

ryan: I always like, look at the people when I go down there, because one, I miss seeing people and two I'm like looking for people I'm like, do I know them

from the podcast?

elaine: You do,

ryan: Yeah, probably. I usually do,

elaine: you should interview one of the chefs there.

I feel

like

ryan: Yeah. That'd be great.

elaine: that would be really

interesting.

ryan: Yeah. I kind of wonder what their whole deal is. To be honest. I, I have No, idea what

their whole deal is.

elaine: At the underground flavor group, you should

interview our molds because he has like such a

vision that's so different from anything else that I've

seen or heard from a

restaurant.

ryan: Yeah.

elaine: That would be

really interesting.

ryan: Oh, that would be cool. I will write down our notes, right.

elaine: Yeah.

ryan: I'll check it out on a wander in there.

elaine: Yes.

ryan: Nice. Elaine. We're rolling. We're not even like like we're pros. We don't

elaine: What do you mean we're

rolling.

ryan: or like we're [00:03:00] in the conversation. We just met each other or it's good if we don't even,

elaine: It's really awkward if you don't, if you call onto a zoom call and you don't just jump into the conversation,

ryan: is that what you've

elaine: don't you think

like,

ryan: I've had a lot of awkward zoom calls in the last year.

elaine: silence is so acceptable in person and actually like wanted sometimes I feel like you don't appreciate silence

as much. And when you hop on a zoom call and it's silent, it's really problematic.

ryan: Let's try it.

elaine: Awkward. Okay.

ryan: Hmm. So comforting.

elaine: It's not silent

if you, so the, thing is Ana, I know that when you are a speaker at an event, and then you ask, are there any questions you then as the speaker, you count to five

and that those are the longest

five seconds. And then at, you know, four seconds still, nobody, five seconds. One person will raise their hand, but first person, like, then, [00:04:00] then after that

more people will have questions, but nobody wants to be the first.

ryan: no. You got to get them over that little humble.

elaine: Yeah. But those five seconds are just like

your audio. What I do is I just really focus

on counting. Maybe sometimes I should try other languages. I don't know, because I think that five seconds of silence that's

really awkward.

ryan: Well, I think we had our five seconds and we're over the

hump now let's just dive into it.

elaine: Sounds good.

ryan: Okay, Elaine, I'm going To have you introduce yourself. You can. Well, before we get into it, do you have any questions for me? Anything I should know

elaine: Any questions

from you. So I like a secret password, but we can tell people,

I always want to play games with people.

And then if I was thinking,

like, if someone's listening, like the

first five people could get Katie

famous sicker, if they send the secret password

ryan: Wow. You are a true marketer. Like,

elaine: you know what I mean? Like I just, like, [00:05:00] I'm always like curious and just want to like know

and engage with

people.

ryan: Well, I think the secret password could be five seconds of silence. That could be, I like it.

elaine: Yeah.

ryan: Well, you're the one with the idea. So you tell me you're kind of

elaine: Well, I was just wondering if that's like an Okay.

thing to do.

ryan: I don't know.

Sure. I think what's great about the podcast for me. And I'm

feeling like

the freedom of it is like it's creative people, podcasts.

Really. If someone comes in like, oh, I dunno, it's a bit like all over the place. I'd be like, fuck you, you saw the title.

elaine: Okay. Yeah.

I understand. Okay. Well, I think we should

decide what the password is like later on, based off of conversation, you know what I mean? Like sometimes there's like recurring themes. I've been listening to your podcasts

actually. Just

ryan: I heard.

elaine: Ever since you talked to Robin and then I just like, got

really into it.

ryan: Thank you.

Well, I just talking to Taylor down the hall. He's in here too. And he said that you reached out cause you're [00:06:00] listening to his podcast and I was so like, that's like the whole thing I'm like yes.

elaine: It's so interesting because you know,

these people or like they are

in, or if I, if I don't know them, like I listened to Andrew Kolbe's content and I've met him before, but I haven't

really talked to him too much. And I was just like, It's interesting. Cause it's either attainable to then talk to someone it's because they're in a community and usually very friendly.

But like Taylor Jones, I know

like we partied together over the years, seen him many times, but like our, I got insight into his mind and Lowy that he works and the way he thinks. and

I just think it's really cool that you're doing,

like getting these conversations

out of people.

ryan: I'm like completely on the flip side one day, I am going to, to party with Taylor Jones and I'm really looking forward to

it, but I haven't yet, but I did have that deep conversation. So, you know, just coming out of

I'm just finding my backdoor into having friends just through.

elaine: Okay, Well, all of us together.

ryan: Okay, [00:07:00] good. I think that's how we have to do it.

elaine: Sounds good.

No, I don't have any further

questions.

ryan: no. Good. Okay. Elaine, introduce yourself. Tell us what you do and then let's just

dive in.

elaine: My name is Elaine declare and I am a marketer. That's really it.

ryan: Yeah. So when I was talking to Robin, she said that you

like were in the park And you were like, I'm going to start a social media thing for this one. That's just what came to mind right now. Let's just go, let's start there. what's

elaine: It's interesting what people take away from. I think we do this all the time with marketing. It's like you say something And

then someone else delivers the

message and then what's at the end person take away from it. Cause I feel like, it sounds like I was having a, I don't know. I mean, I was going through a time of boredom and creativity.

I had just started freelancing and have a lot of [00:08:00] projects and I was living near Victoria Park and I just kinda like went for a walk and. Something about 11 that's really hard to do is when people of all ages really love something. And I think an animal is kind of that thing. So I go to the park and then, you know, an older couple would be sitting on the bench, talking about Otis and then a child would be like running around, trying to chase Otis or whatever it is that kids do.

And they just thought,

wow, this is really interesting. It's really fun to see so many people know the name of this animal and I hadn't. And then I kind of like did a Google search.

And the record had an article years ago that started Otis is a bachelor and he's happy to stay that way.

And just being a fan of the show, the bachelor, I

just really took that and thought it was funny.

And I.

He's like a COO and

then I kind of came up with a personality for him. And because I was bored, [00:09:00] I had just been laid off. My startup job just started freelancing kind of casuals before we really started Robin and Elaine

and KW famous. And I was just kind of like

I'm used to having an audience. and so talking to people online,

that's what I do as a marketer. So it just kind of decided that I

was going to create the Instagram

account for the Swan. I remember, I think I went to Robbins that night and I, a couple of people were there and I was like, you guys did something really weird today. I started in an account for the Swan that lives in Victoria.

It just kind of

kept going. I don't have as much time these days to update the account as they did back when I had one to two clients.

It was kind of a fun outlet for me, but spurred into, and then Robin, as a designer kind of picked it up and was like, I'm actually wearing the shirt right now and was like this he's these a band t-shirt.

And then we started selling them online

and I think she's called that story, but [00:10:00] it was just kind of an organic way for us to also start working together on something

really

fun.

ryan: Yeah, that is so fun. and I love that You're just there, there's a few things that I loved about that. I love that you're looking for things that like lots

of people, like, like, I, I love those things, you know, that's what I love about pop culture and like, animals are totally like that. I love that. And I love that.

You're just that he's that bachelor in my mind went to like a swab gentlemen, but Becky said the bachelor show totally changed. My view is this, this one's still alive. When's the last time you updated for?

elaine: Yesterday I did update the account.

ryan: Yes. Good.

elaine: But most of the time at this point, it's a lot of just other people creating content for Otis and they're at the park and they tag him.

I think also like something that I'm always looking for is when we do an event or do it a marketing campaign, and just like looking for sort of a sense of belonging within people and just like, how can we find our place in this world?

And I feel like for [00:11:00] Otis,

he's just like, he's a Swan and everybody just kind of loves him. So I just thought it was really

cool.

ryan: like, everything we've talked about so far

Isn't really the first thing that comes to mind when most people think about marketing. I think they think, I don't know what they think, but I think they think stuffy and corporate and you know, that kind of thing. Yeah,

Do you deal with any of that?

Do you have to like push back against any of that?

elaine: I think that one of the reasons why I do what I do is because. There's a lot of mixed messages when it comes to marketing where people are trying to force the message onto someone, I'm actually a really believe big believer in opting out where like, if you have a really good brand, not only are people going to be invited and want to know that this is a product that you have, but people who aren't right for your brand are

going to self identify, but they aren't part of that

and opt out and you'll have better brand experience overall because the right people [00:12:00] are coming to you.

And I think

that I don't, I'm, I'm a really bad liar

actually. So some people think marketers are really good liars. I'm

really bad at it. So I just want to give

people honest and true experiences. And I think that's where a lot of that sort of

comes from.

ryan: I liked what you said

about being a bad liar. It's like, I think some of us have,

like that thing, it's like, if this isn't, I don't believe in this, it's hard to it, you know, even, even if it sounds good or if it.

fits the narrative, it's like, but I don't believe it. Like, it's a bit of a.

elaine: Yeah. And I think that people can see right through that ultimately, and that we, I think we talk a lot about the next 20 years and what, you want to do. And I think that's like a big question for people. Like why did you start off her meaning by asking you

what I want to do for the next 20 years of my brand.

And it's because it shows [00:13:00] so

much more than just the here and now. And that's just a really important thing to me.

ryan: Yeah, I like that. so let's go back a little

bit,

elaine: Okay.

ryan: Wayne, as a creative person. When did this

kinda, when this kickoff for you, when did you, some people when they're younger, they know, right off the bat and then other people it's not until they're older. What was your story?

elaine: I think that I grew up dancing. that?

was like my creative outlet, so very different. But same time I was doing ballet. So probably is very structured. It's different sort of then other types of

dance as a marketer and sometimes as a technical marketer, I don't know that I always thought about what I do as creative.

Like I look at what Steph hutaree does and the way that she talks about her work. And I look the way Robin is, and I get to work with her every day and I'm just like, shoot, they are so beyond creative. But I think only like in the last couple of years, I've [00:14:00] come to realize what creativity means to me. And coming up with stories

essentially. And oftentimes

just in a couple words is where most of my creativity will lie. if I have a creative idea, it's because I came

up with a phrase that spurs off

everything

else.

ryan: Hmm.

elaine: So I would really say that it's just in the past couple of years that I would think of myself as creative,

ryan: Interesting.

elaine: even though I

know that I've been creative now

ryan: Yeah.

elaine: life,

ryan: Why do you think that is? Why do you think when you were younger,

you didn't necessarily identify like, oh, I'm a creative person.

elaine: I think it's more like an admiration for other people and that I was just really bad at drawing. And I thought that. if you were creative, he must be good at drawing.

So yeah, it's

just so different. What about you, when would you say that you

realized that you're

creative.[00:15:00]

ryan: The drawing thing is so funny because it's, I think it's pretty common. I, if someone decided, like someone said, if you can't draw, you're not creative to someone and it just spread, you, know and so many people who believe this lie that it's like, we need to stop this. This is not true.

elaine: I remember even in like English classes, like writing, I really enjoyed writing, but I feel like in English classes, it's even harder to get an a, like most people, when they write an essay, I felt like just didn't get an, a, it was much harder to get a good market in it. So it was my schooling that really like stopped me from thinking that, oh, because I didn't, I didn't really,

it's easy to do well in math.

And I did well in math that I must be more of like a math person than a creative person.

ryan: Hmm. I didn't do well in math.

And I didn't do well in like writing because I was just like really irresponsible. So [00:16:00] I, I knew I was creative but Yeah. Well, fuck. I don't know how I'm going to do this though. So that's been the whole trajectory from I'm still on it. Yeah. But I think it's so interesting.

The things that we just shut off so early that we have to like, kind of turn back on, like later on, like you I'm not speaking for you, but I think a lot of us, you know, we're good at math or whatever this and we like, oh, I guess this is not for me. I guess this is not for me. Then you get older. You're like, why did I decide this wasn't for me?

I love this. This is like, the thing that gets me up in the morning.

elaine: Yeah, definitely something I really like to say is that you'll always keep growing up or you'll always be deciding what you want to be when you grow up. Because I didn't think that I don't feel like a

grownup now,

ryan: Yeah.

elaine: all of those things,

but you always have

to

be thinking about what you want to do when you grow up.

And it's just like, oh, blocks

building on top of

each other to the next thing. And you don't necessarily know what that [00:17:00] is.

ryan: It's interesting that you say that because like the growing up thing it's like, what were you asking people before when you were talking to them? like, what do you want to do? Like where are you in 20 years? That's kind of growing up, right? Yeah. That's the same question.

elaine: That's true. And they think that when we tell people, we ask people that we don't expect them to

stick to

it, but just want to know kind of ideas that, you know, if it's the name of your company, that it didn't pigeonhole you and that maybe we'll change it later is a little bit harder. So what are the things that we can do now to think about those?

But I, fully expect that

when they're grown up, those answers will change. My 20 year

plan ends with a

beach and a Palm tree.

So

ryan: As all 20 year plans.

elaine: unless you like 17 degree weather, then maybe it's the mountains.

ryan: I'll visit the beach though, after 20 years. Fuck. I just I, don't want to climb. I

don't, that's the

most relaxing spot. That's where I want to be in 20 years

elaine: Yeah.

ryan: on a [00:18:00] cool day.

elaine: on a cool day. the wind blowing through your

hair at the

ryan: Yeah. Yeah. These locks. so let's talk about your

spark of inspiration. Then you talked about it being like a couple of words that kind of like you unpack from there. How does that process work for you? How do you get to those couple of works?

elaine: It's funny. Cause we've taken the last, we had a week off, which I, we never do unless it's the holidays or something, first time taking summer vacation. But people always tell us that we work too much in our business, not on our business. And I think during that week, both Robin and I were like

coming up with all of these ideas that we just never really kept thinking about before.

And for me, I think it's more like word vomit. Like

both times I had two things that I think

we're going to

execute on and both of them? had to do? with being on a patio, drinking a beer and then all of a sudden, yeah, An idea comes and I just [00:19:00] say it out loud, but I feel it coming

up and then it's just a word moment. That's disgusting, but

ryan: No, I'm so glad it went to like that different level because Yeah.

You said V word vomit. I was like, oh, my Brian was like, okay. She

just spits out a lot of words. I get it. And she picks the good ones, but then you're like, no, I feel it coming up. And I'm like, oh, I know that feeling. Everyone knows that.

elaine: yeah.

it's not just

all of a sudden it

happens. It's like this is going to happen.

ryan: Yeah.

elaine: And

then give me a

moment. We're not, we're going to have our five seconds of

silence for sure. And then it's

going to happen.

ryan: Yeah,

elaine: And I think sometimes I

like picture the words in my head first. And then all of a sudden I say them because I remember one of the phrases, which I

feel like I shouldn't say on, unless we actually continue to execute on it, but I saw it.

[00:20:00] And then I was

like, really struggling to say it out loud. I would have, if I had paper in front of me, I would have written it

down first, but I couldn't do that. And then I couldn't read off my paper was so detailed. I'm

so

sorry.

ryan: no, but like take a step back from what you just said, and it is detailed in this, in the sense that I think all of us have been there

with an idea, you know, we've all been there where you're like, okay, getting it from the, the mess inside to like the real world And then starting to like sort it out. It's like the whole game, right?

Like. I totally know what you mean. Like I wish I could have written it down. I didn't want to say it because sometimes they're like that, you know, I love that.

elaine: Or sometimes you just want to sit with it and reflect if I was alone, I wouldn't have sat with it and reflected for a minute, but

because we were on patios drinking, I didn't have that

option.

ryan: Yeah. So what'd you do?

elaine: So I just said it.

ryan: Yeah. You just

literally

elaine: I

ryan: lovely. [00:21:00]

elaine: where it's

ryan: So what happens after that?

elaine: then you decide if it's a good idea or a bad

idea.

ryan: Yeah.

elaine: I feel like one thing that I'm really lucky is that I have Robin with me all the time.

Our client yesterday asked us if we lived together and I was like, oh, no, no, no, no. We just met a lot of time together.

We have each other to bounce ideas off of, and then we just kind of know, this is a good idea. We're going to keep going with it. And then I think Robin almost because we've been working together for three years now, I think she takes it next. And she visualizes. I mean, sometimes she starts with the idea.

So in this case, she kind of visualized what it was and then we kind of go back and work on it back and forth.

ryan: It's nice to have that.

Like on one hand, you didn't want to say it out loud, but on the

other hand, you have that safe [00:22:00] space where you can say those things out loud, and even if it's not fully developed or it's going to change, or It's still like a safe space that someone else can Like.

you know, add their magic.

elaine: Exactly. Yeah. And one of them was Like an event idea. So we

actually were doing a forced

brainstorming session where we just kind of like both kind of saying things back and forth. And So we had lots of ideas put out there and were like, that's not right, but sounds fine. But what else is out there?

And then you see that one and you both kind of cling to it and that's how You know that you can move forward with

it.

ryan: Yeah.

elaine: And then there's like the back pocket ideas where some of them just end up in the back

pocket for years and years, but they might

find their place.

ryan: Yeah. That's so interesting. This morning. I was like working on this blog post that I'm calling

Ideas don't have timestamps because sometimes they just show up and you're like, I know this is good, but I don't know what to do with it right now. I guess I just put it in my back pocket, [00:23:00] but that can be pretty confusing, especially when you're still figuring out how your creativity comes. and like you think everything's like, I got to use this now, but you might not

use

elaine: Right.

ryan: for like years.

elaine: Actually we have one rule called the idea has to stand the test of time where if you can't remember the idea tomorrow, it's probably not a good idea, but that's not true, but like going to the grocery store. So sometimes I go back on that idea, I'm like, well, when you went to the grocery store and had the idea that you're going to buy bread, and then you went to the grocery store and you

forgot, I mean, it's a little bit different, but I'm just saying that sometimes writing them down, having them somewhere is a

good

idea.

ryan: I agree. Robin said that on

the podcast and I grew, I agreed with that.

I found myself disagreeing a lot too, but there are times where I fully agree and I agree with like the heart behind it is like, if it's really good, it's going to stick around.

elaine: Yeah,

ryan: Yeah. I [00:24:00] love that. I love that was one of my main takeaways from my chat with her.

Let's talk about partnership though. Like, it sounds like awesome. like, it's, can't be always awesome.

elaine: it's funny because I know that Robin was going to be on the podcast and then he listened to the podcast and I was like, oh, you talked about me a lot.

ryan: Yeah.

elaine: And I know that we both do in our lives because we are sometimes we're thinking on behalf of one another and we are so intertwined in each other's lives.

That

it's hard. It's hard. Sometimes it's really, really hard to

have

a business partner. And I think

sometimes people look at it and they're like, oh, you guys, you're always hanging out.

And then you're brainstorming ideas

and, and yeah, it's amazing. Like, I feel like so lucky

to go to work with my best friend every day, but it's also

one of the most important relationships that I have.

And we have to be honest with each other and we have [00:25:00] to fight things out. And then when we're in a fight, it's just like so much anxiety and then we have to meet with the client, but we're disappointed in something that happened. So I think the first year was really, Kind of nice and then it's also kind of hard, but then last year was really hard, especially with dealing with the pandemic.

I think just getting to know each other's working styles and then not being too hard on each other and

then living through a

pandemic and all of those things. and then this year has been a little

bit easier, but who knows, maybe he'll get

really hurt again.

ryan: Yeah. I think it was like, you have to have grace for the person, especially during like, like what we are currently in is like, I think we don't even understand necessarily how we deal with it, you know? And then you're in a partnership with someone and they're like, what are you doing? And Like, gets messy.

elaine: It's funny because I think that we give each other more grace or even this morning, I was just like I'm not having it today. It's really [00:26:00] annoying. And she goes, do you need to take today off? Like that's totally. Okay. We work for ourselves. There's no pressing deadline in this moment.

Do you just, and it's, like, well, no, I'm, I'm fine.

I'm just overreacting. And I actually want to get this done and I'm really excited about whatever it is that we're working on. So she reminds me to

give myself grace,

whereas I would probably be a lot harder on myself if I was just speaking with myself.

So there's a lot of pros and then there's but really hard parts.

But for us, I think she's

just so genuine, honest and creative that she makes my work better. And I'm really thankful for

that.

ryan: I love it. Is that they're

like, no, I'm fine. It just it's like you needed an out and then also you needed someone to take it. Seriously. I feel like I like am there all the time. Like, okay. I'm being dramatic right now, but I'm actually [00:27:00] fine, but I need you to take this seriously. And now the cycle is over.

Let's move on.

elaine: Exactly. And sometimes just Talking things out, even when a project is going badly and to have someone to be like

I'm going to step in now and I'll talk to the client because we do Robinson designer, I'm a marketer. So we do do different things. And sometimes the projects rely more heavily on one of us.

And so it's just really nice at the end of the day, that if

I'm struggling with a client, she can just step in and be like, this is what's going to happen. this is

my, my outlook on what's going on And take control if I can't

ryan: Yeah. And I like, that you can

like having those two

close, but different

perspectives is like super valuable for attacking any problem, right? Yeah. I know? as a designer who has to like figure in the dark and marketing. Sometimes you just like, you, you hit it with design, hit with design, and then you just like, I don't know what to do here, you know?

So we need to be able to have someone that you can talk with And [00:28:00] like, like, pivot to, and look at it from a completely different perspective. That's huge.

elaine: Yeah.

I feel like listening to your podcasts and listening to so many people, everyone had like that kind of one person that they talked to, whether it was their partner was there, it's a coworker. Like someone always had someone that they talked to and that I will look is just so valuable. And let's even when we feel like we come in to work on brands will be like, we're the new kid?

We're the new person in the room. We don't really hold back when we

answer questions or ask them even that we're gonna act as the customer that doesn't know anything. And that's really valuable.

ryan: Yeah, Yeah, because we can be so in our

heads that we're

making things for other people, but we have to make them inside And we can lose, know, lose the plot a little sometimes.

elaine: for sure. Yeah.

And it's also like, even. When we look out into the world, I feel like Robin and I look at two different things. If we're staring at the same waterfall, she's looking at the, she might be [00:29:00] looking at the structure of the waterfall is the colors. And I'll be like, I heard there was a cliff that we could jump off here.

I wonder how deep it is. And I'll just be thinking of something completely different. And it's just cool

to

work with someone who

thinks just even

to this day,

we don't know what each other's thinking.

ryan: Yeah. But when did bring me back to when this partnership started evolving, how did you Like had you been in a creative partnership before? How do you like, how did you know?

let's do this together?

elaine: I had

been laid off a startup job. , I was kind of just looking for another

job. so I just realized that I didn't have

to go back to work. And then I was freelancing for some jobs and then Robin was doing the same thing. She was working full time freelancing. And the first thing we actually worked on together was an event.

It was a dance related event, there's not a lot of cool. There are actually are starting to be more, But cool [00:30:00] dance events and KW. So we brought in an instructor and Robin designed in and I organized everything and it just kind of like worked really well.

And then we. Heard about some product and just kind of like tried it out.

So it's very two freelancers working together. And then when we realized

Robin actually texted me one day, do you want to start a business together?

And I think I responded Like this is a lot bigger of a conversation than this, but

yes. And so

we just put our names together?

And then from that point on, we could offer so much more than just being individual freelancers on our own.

We are now what people look at as an agency and that a lot of our values really aligned on

what we want brands to be. it was really organic.

ryan: Yeah, I really liked that. did you have any doubts stuff? Was

it like, or was it just like, I think this is a [00:31:00] perfect

fit.

elaine: think that both of us were just willing to see where it goes.

ryan: Yeah.

elaine: And that over time more. So I think, I mean, I definitely believed in us, but over time we realized how different our skills are and that like, there are, I know some other people start businesses together and they argue over who should do what?

And for us, it's just seems to be very clear what the boundaries are and then how we respect and talk to

each other. I don't think I've ever had any doubts in our business, even during the hard

times.

ryan: Is there anything that you would suggest to

someone who's like thinking about

a partnership that you've discovered is like super

important, like look for this, make sure that this is kind of there.

elaine: I think that my relationship with Robin is just so different. I feel like You have to be ready for it. It's really hard. You're going to find out a lot about someone else. [00:32:00] I think looking for different qualities that you both have to bring to the table is probably where I see other partners also really work out.

You're not looking for the same person as you, but you can. I mean, hopefully at the end of the day, you can still grab patio drinks together

and have fun. But I think you're looking for someone who

compliments your skills

ryan: Yeah. And like, probably like a way of working and like, there has to be some sort of clicking together where you can, if someone's super structured and someone's like, not structured at all, like there has to be something like that fits together. I'm sure.

elaine: yeah,

I think depending on the relationship, you can probably figure it out. And if, if that's the case, then one person gets to have a lot of patients

with patients and partnership is

pretty key patients in business as well.

ryan: yeah. Yeah. partnerships are so fascinating to me because I'm not like I've [00:33:00] been married for a long time.

So that's like a partnership obviously, but like a business partnership. I'm just talking to making this up as I go along. So it sounds like like, it sounds so nice, but also it sounds like this, scary stuff of sharing that much of yourself with another person that sounds like, I don't know if I'm up for doing that again, you know, like, so I think it's I'm a very, very, the reason I wanted to talk to both of you is because I'm so intrigued by how you guys worked together and it just seems, so I just want to like, do, be part of it for that two hours.

elaine: It's Robin, Elaine And Ryan. Now that's our business. Now. I just feel like, you have to, I feel like it's really hard and I don't want people to get the idea. And I think people get a lot

of an idea that it's not that

hard. And I think you just said

that you are trying to figure it out as you go.

and I think that us too,

but we [00:34:00] have each other to figure it out as we go.

And if someone isn't willing to take those risks and just like.

ryan: Yeah.

elaine: Throw a party, even though it feels like it's off-brand, but it's not because your brand is really famous and it's supposed to be at the end of the day that everyone has fun,

that just so aligned in why we do what we

do. And I think that we always

push our clients to tell

us why they do what they do and that's been base of our business and we other people build their

brands.

ryan: And it comes back to that, that honesty thing. You're not asking anyone you're working

with to not do, to do anything that you're not doing. You're like I'm doing this. This is come do this with us.

elaine: Yeah. I think we're really lucky in the sense that

this community is so supportive of each other and they look at

maybe Kaylee famous and just think [00:35:00] they want to work with people who also

love the community. and without that community element, and we try and bring

the community element, everything

that we do, whether we're working on our

brand or somebody else's, it's just so important to us.

ryan: why is this community so important to you? Are you from here? Like you're have you been here in whole

life?

elaine: I, Yes.

I grew up here. I went to Western and I thought that I would never come back. Western was close enough that I could come back home, but I didn't want to stay here. And then I got a job working for an agency in town when I graduated and I just stayed because it was really hard to get a job at the time.

And then I was really interested in just the startup world and what startups were doing.

So I went to some of those, I think that I love living in Kitchener, Waterloo, and there's so many really awesome people. And you know that you talk to them all the time that we're really supportive of one another.

And I just feel like any idea that I have. [00:36:00] When I'm ready to push it forward. Other people are willing to help. And I feel like if I were to move to Toronto, it would be a little bit harder to execute on some of my

ideas. And I think that I'm also willing to help other people build their dreams.

My favorite part of our jobs is getting to talk to people who have an idea for their

business and we get to it's not something that's easy

to think of and then to help other people do that

ryan: Yeah.

elaine: really amazing.

ryan: And I think partly it's like, this.

is like ours, like this is our

city. And if, if you were like at Western or like in Toronto, of building that city. Right.

elaine: Right?

Yeah.

ryan: I feel, I don't know. I think some of us feel a responsibility

elaine: I responsibility and an

opportunity for

sure.

ryan: Hmm, good. That's a blast. [00:37:00] so let's talk about ideas then, like, and how you? interact with your creativity. It's interesting that you said those comes as words and stuff, but if you were to imagine your creativity in your mind and give it a physical form, what does that look like?

elaine: I thought it was funny. Cause you talked about how you were, this was

a cat

ryan: Not anymore, but it used to be,

elaine: what is it now?

ryan: it's a

black hole.

elaine: It's a black

hole.

ryan: Yeah.

elaine: The

first,

ryan: Good. and bad. Like

good. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah.

elaine: I have to

catch up. Yes. the first thing that came to my mind was an arcade claw

machine.

ryan: Hm.

elaine: You know, those claw machines and you're reaching for that. Plus she, and you really want it,

ryan: Yeah,

elaine: but most people they don't ever get the prize it's feels like gambling. It just feels like stealing there. They're taking our money

from.

ryan: yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

elaine: But every now and then somebody [00:38:00] gets the toy,

ryan: Yeah.

elaine: that little cute little bear or whatever you get,

and that actually lands in the hole

and goes into you and you get it and you get to

keep it.

ryan: I love that. It's such a visual eye. Like drop now.

elaine: Yeah. Literally drops. But there's also that part of it where

it's still moving towards you and you don't know if it's going to drop.

ryan: Yeah,

elaine: And I think that. Sometimes we'll

come up with an idea and sometimes I feel like such a Debbie downer and I'll be like, no, that's not right. No, this is going to happen. No, because I'm trying to think through.

And I think sometimes people in meetings, they think that I'm angry because

now thinking through every single logistic towards it, like, the end, if it's an event who's going to clean up at the

end of it. Like I'm trying to plan out everything when I know that they don't

need to go all the way there, but I feel like that part

where the toys coming towards you [00:39:00] is like?

is it going to drop?

Have we figured out

everything that we need to do? I think also in marketing,

I heard a quote once that said marketing

is 99% logistics and 1% a good idea. Yeah. Idea. But

how are you going to execute It And what are we going to do next? And then how are you going to follow up at the end of the day?

So I feel like when I have an idea, I'm like holding on to it. And

then it might drop before it comes to me because of all those factors, it might land at

the end of it.

ryan: Yeah. I really liked that and I love the people in meetings think you're angry, but they need to be tested and there needs to be kind of like the bad cop there to be like, yeah, well, what about this? What about this? What about this? it.

has to stand up to that test.

elaine: Yeah. But I think that.

that's where Robin and I find a really good balance. It's probably won't be I'll be able [00:40:00] to say no. And then she'll all of a

sudden think of something else. And then we'll kind of like, come

back and meet in the middle.

ryan: I think you bring up an interesting thing about negativity. It's such a, it's complicated being negative because life's negative a lot of the time, Like just, it's hard out there. But two, we want to stay positive, but the

negative viewpoint can weed out a lot of problems. it.

can like there it's valuable.

You just can't live there all the time.

elaine: It's true. I think it's more about for me at the end of the day. I think I said at the beginning that it's about finding a sense of belonging within people and that at the end of the day, I just want to have fun most of the time, depending obviously on the project that I'm working on. But I don't look at it like a negative outlook.

I look at it as what are we going to do? What is the best possible thing that we can [00:41:00] do for people and just. Also out of efficiency,

what are the things that are standing out to me right now that we

need to address before we continue to move forward just think

around?

ryan: I think like how we didn't miss understanding it's not bell being negative. Cause you're pushing, you're just willing to go through the negative stuff and you're going towards the positive. So it is a positive viewpoint. It's just like, Hey, we just gotta get through this shit first.

elaine: It's true.

ryan: going to ignore it.

elaine: Yeah. that's true.

and lots of times, like, I'm

thinking if it's an event again, I'm thinking through the entire script of what happens and the pre-planning to the end and they just kind of go into a

tunnel, I would say. And I just kind of think through every single thing that's going to happen that I can think of in that time.

ryan: Yeah, we had to teach people like, Hey, that's

creative thinking, like you can't draw,

but like you just did that. That's creative thinking that you're a creative person. Right. Like, I feel like we need to go to all [00:42:00] those kids back global. Well,

elaine: Yeah.

ryan: worry about the drawing. Can you start, try to

do that?

elaine: Yeah. I mean, I feel like more and more,

no, I still think that kids think that if you're not good at drawing, you're not creative.

You're

right.

ryan: I should ask my kids.

elaine: Yeah.

What does creativity mean to you,

ryan: Yeah.

elaine: with your

children?

That'd be interesting.

ryan: I need to hire you

elaine: I feel like,

ryan: there another podcast but I'll just save it for me. They'll just be like,

elaine: okay.

ryan: oh man. When's the last thing that you saw that you were just like blown away by?

elaine: I think in your email, you said this all

or red.

ryan: Yeah, Yeah.

Yeah. I mean sun, like the using your

elaine: Yeah. Oh, yes.

Yes.

ryan: eye even. I don't

elaine: My mind's eye. I feel like, cause I was

thinking about something when it really blows you away, you tell a lot

of people about it.

And the last thing that I told a lot of people about [00:43:00] was is this book that I'm reading called the Waterloo. You never know. And it's so interesting to read the history of a place that you

grew up in that you live in and just hearing the names of like, Jacob Bechtle and Albert McCormick and not in the context of an arena, but in

the context of who these people were and what it looked Like, in Waterloo

county, in the 18 hundreds.

And I think that I have told

so many people that?

they need to read this book.

It also inspires me to share some of these things through the cannoli. FEMAs

ryan: Yeah. Deep dive, KW. Famous.

elaine: Yeah. I don't think it's a Kitale famous for everyone. Like you would

want to be interested in history,

ryan: Yeah.

elaine: but it was, it's just a really good, I'm not actually done yet, but it's been a

really good

read. [00:44:00]

ryan: Who wrote it?

elaine: It's by?

Joanna at record hall.

ryan: It's like a proper three name.

elaine: Yeah, just the things, the fascinating things about our region. And I felt like, but we'll say in greens is the new, I don't know

if we'll take an, a walking downtown

kitchen and I've gone on some walks of people and they've been like oh, I didn't know this was here. And this has popped up.

And the pandemic has changed downtown Kitchener a lot.

ryan: Yeah.

elaine: And it was like vocal saying was

the first foot and manufacturer in Waterloo

region.

ryan: Hmm.

elaine: And just like the interesting stories that come from there.

ryan: Yeah. Well, I really like it. I want to look into that. What's your favorite thing to make?

elaine: My favorite thing to make our people happy.

ryan: Oh, that's so nice.

elaine: And I sometimes say like, I love hosting events and I love making like an environment of many activities that people are really interested in how memories are formed based off of place. And how, if you. you. know, badminton, [00:45:00] and then you go sit by the bonfire and then you eat food.

You have formed memories in each of those three spaces. Instead of if you go to a patio, you'd just remember being at the patio. Or if you get really drunk, when I, you, you kind of still remember where you went, but you don't necessarily know

what you did or said. And I love at the end of an event when someone says, thank you.

ryan: Hmm.

elaine: I actually don't love that because I'm like no, I invited you to my house. And I just feel awkward because I feel like I didn't do anything because I wanted this also for me. But. I also think that when people, all we have in this world go steep, but all we have this world is in this world is our time.

And when people choose to.

spend time with you and then feel thankful for the time

that they spend with you, and that they've made informed so many memories in that time. And I think over the pandemic, you think while I was in my house all the time and I and all of a sudden, now I'm two years older and I don't really remember anything that happened,

ryan: [00:46:00] Yeah.

elaine: except for that.

I was at home a lot.

Then now we have more opportunities than ever to make those experiences happen.

ryan: I really love, I think you're the, I've never talked

about creativity in exactly this way. You're talking about being creative with your time and being creative with location, right? Like in making things and making interesting things with both of those elements, that seems, you know, those are, so those are like primal elements, but they're also, they're not things, right.

They're not, you can't, you can't capture them. You just, they just are in that moment. And I think that's really interesting place to play with creativity.

elaine: so I guess I changed my answer cause I don't really want to be the girl that wants to make people happy. Like I want to what I want to make or environments that

people feel like they have a place where they belong.

Does that make

sense

ryan: Yeah, it [00:47:00] makes sense. I like it a

lot like belong.

in that moment. Not necessarily like belong forever.

Cause when you're talking about badminton and then you on fire, if you have a memory of each of those moments, I think you

something connected at those places. Right.

elaine: For sure. Oh, that sense of

ryan: interesting.

elaine: there's a sense of connection. And then every time you move your body, every time you move to a new physical location, you have the opportunity to create new connections. Usually the same person isn't sitting beside you, you feel like it's not something that you, you remember all of the different feelings that you had, and you have opportunity if you're not having a good time playing badminton, for example, and you move on, it's easier to forget that you had a bad time because you now formed a connection with someone new.

So I remember, you know, You can sleep in a luxury hotel and be completely

alone, or you can sleep in a [00:48:00] hostel

around a ton of people that you have connections, and you can both have a really good

time and, and both of them, but you remember different things about them.

At the end of the day, I feel Like I don't usually

remember that I had a bad sleep.

ryan: Yeah.

elaine: connections that I made.

ryan: What would you recommend? and like, what would your advice be to

someone who is creative more in the, how do I say this properly? like in the abstract, like your creativity, what we're talking about here, we're not talking about painting. We're not, talking, we're talking about abstract creativity in times And places.

And what would you recommend to someone who, who feels drawn to that?

elaine: I would recommend that they are just intentional about every single thing that they put on the table.

And I think too, it's not just about I think I talk a lot about

experiences in a room together,

but with marketing, to me, it's all the same. It's the pre

before the campaign even happens, it's a huge miss that people have [00:49:00] that this is a time that you can build up a lot of hype and mystery towards that thing that you're about to launch.

Then there's the

launch. What happens then? I think I would just tell them to like allow their thoughts to exist. Just allow yourself to feel, I think a lot. yeah.

It took me a long time. And I read a quote once that said, feelings are her feeling. And I just remember really leaning into that and being like, if you can think of a creative experience for people,

 make sure that you're intentional about everything you do.

But you've

also thought through the entire process

because you

can have, like I said before,

I think it goes back

to good ideas. 99%

logistics.

ryan: Yeah. I think that's so interesting too, is like, you just need one good idea. And I think if you're a creative person, you think, oh, creepy Bob, I'd be good with ideas. all the time. And it just like fallen all over the floor, but you really just need one and you can, it doesn't matter if you have five good ideas or like one, you [00:50:00] just need one and then you use craft And skill to kind of make it what it's supposed to be.

Talk to me about your craft and skill. How do you grow? How do you, how do you challenge yourself? How do you approach you know, getting better? How do you approach that?

elaine: I'm always looking to do. And I think Robin's the same way in, on a different end. We're always looking to do something different. And when you're doing something different is the same thing. Forming memories, trying new things, having different experiences in your body and feeling different things and following them.

I think that the way I grow is by talking to different people. And again, the pandemic

obviously made that difficult, but I really try every month I have

to talk to someone new. I'm going to approach this

person and see, I still ran marketing meetups online just to see where I can talk to different people, listening to your own podcasts, listening to any podcasts that inspires

creativity. [00:51:00] Following those feelings?

ryan: I literally just had something. I was going to say it just left. It must've been a terrible idea.

elaine: No, it wasn't. it

ryan: No, it was so good. It was good. Oh, yes, I remember it was, do you consider yourself like an

introverted person or extroverted person?

elaine: I am a huge extrovert

ryan: Yeah.

elaine: and I

have had to learn

almost I get bored

very easily if I'm not around other

people.

And I have lately been working on

embracing boredom to find insight and meaning into my own life. Which is really difficult when you want to be around other people, but happy to be.

around other people again, and

money.

I just feel so inspired. And I feel like I've

had so many fun. People said that you'll have a lot of creative ideas if you're alone inside your house.

And let's when all of these ideas will come innovative

ideas during the pandemic. But definitely

not for me. I feel like I've had more good ideas lately being able to [00:52:00] interact with

people more.

ryan: Yeah. Do you think though that the time away helped when you went back?

elaine: Luckily we were very busy with client work. I feel like I kind of spent more on like my

own personal

projects.

Yeah, but I guess it is different and maybe you're right. Maybe it was some time

away that really

helped.

ryan: I just wondered. I just, you know, I don't,

sometimes we think of things like

it's good for us, but if it's not in the moment good for us, then we just don't see the benefit. But you know, Maybe that time away added to how you came back to being around people. I don't know.

I Around people that much.

So.

elaine: we actually executed on an event during the pandemic. It was called the

amazing race or the KW amazing race.

And I think when I talk about ideas and logistics, like logistically for that event

was it was all

done through text message or people received a text. And then they had to answer clues

to, and then had a physical interaction element where you [00:53:00] walked around uptown and he had to answer questions and then text back on your phone.

And I just thought text was so accessible to everyone that didn't need to be downloading another app on our phones. And we were able to interact with the physical world, even though it was, a pandemic. The guide was your phone. And then you still have to go to the store locations. And I feel like logistically in that one was probably the hardest one that we've ever

done,

because there were so many spots because we have to think about COVID and all of those things.

So even though

there was a pandemic, I feel like we were still trying to

push the envelope on we could

do,

ryan: yeah.

elaine: limitations we had.

ryan: Yeah. I love that And I. What I love that I've seen from this whole thing is like people just finding a way to do that shit that they feel like they got to do. You know? And like you guys, you feel like you got to make events and make

these like, experiences. [00:54:00] And like, we're gonna figure out a way.

elaine: And I think that people are really adaptable and I I think there is a lot of negativity in the world, but

similarly, people are looking for the positives and everything,

ryan: Yeah.

elaine: that's just really nice and refreshing.

ryan: Yeah. Elaine, I had the best

time chatting with you. I feel like, like, it's just like,

I was like waiting for this since my talk with Robin now it feels like

the circle is complete.

elaine: I feel like Taylor Jones

talked about this and like the form of therapy.

And I was like, yeah, this was

therapy.

ryan: Oh, I'm glad.

elaine: Thank you so

much.

And Thank you. for everything that you do. I

feel like I've been really enjoying listening to the

podcast.

ryan: That means so much. It's the more I get into this, the more I'm like, I was just talking to someone yesterday down at

pirates and he was like an older guy, but he was talking

about all his creative frustrations and like all the time you felt like alone and all that. And I [00:55:00] was like, yes, man, like we gotta, we gotta talk about this.

This is like, we haven't talked about it. And I'm just glad to be part of the conversation and to bring people together because I just spent so much of my time frustrated and I think a lot of people have, and we can all get stuck. So thank you for sharing everything and, and complementing Robin's episode.

I had the best time. Thank you.

elaine: Thank you. I can't wait to see you in person with Taylor

Jones.

ryan: Just come down with it.

elaine: Sounds good.

ryan: Yesterday. I had someone come down

and they were, they changed their hair and were wearing masks. I had no idea where they were.

elaine: Yesterday. I said hi to someone, very

excitedly. Wasn't the person I, thought. And I was like, sorry, it's the mask

ryan: I blamed it on the bangs. They got bangs and stuff. I was like, I, I, have a problem with

elaine: bangs complete. It's a completely different time. We have bangs We have masks. Are you supposed to recognize anyone? You're not, wearing skinny [00:56:00] jeans anymore because they're out of style who knows

ryan: bangs and mask. And you could like walk in. You're like a new person.

elaine: new person, which I kind of liked

sometimes,

ryan: Oh yeah.

elaine: it's really hard to go to the grocery store and not run into someone in capable.

So

ryan: Isn't it. The mass thing though. Sometimes you're just like, I just want to get in and out and no, one's going to see me. And this is the fucking awesome.

elaine: yeah, it's the

awesomest.

ryan: just want to use you, you just want to hide sometimes. So

I don't know. Maybe I'll just. I'm just saying this as a introverted extrovert, I had the best time talking to you, but now I'm so drained.

So

elaine: I could talk all day. All right. have a

great

day, Ryan.

ryan: have a great day, Elaine. Thank you for being on the podcast.